[A conversation which reflected a beautiful evolvement of wisdom took place at one of Yudhaihtara’s talks. I wanted to include it here in celebration and because it reflects the journey many of us take. So let us eavesdrop on this special conversation in which wisdom and acknowledgement flow from both sidesS.]
Yudhishtara, as you know, I have been interested in people who are pure jnani and the dream of oneness they speak of. It is natural for such a person to talk a certain way because they really feel it that way. You can’t really expect people like that to talk differently. The problem is not so much that they say certain things, it’s that we judge ourselves in relation to them even though we need not.
It’s really fine that such people go around saying these things because that’s their truth. For others it’s just pretend. I was sitting for some time with somebody who really was only in the oneness in the extreme way. I really felt he was telling the truth. I didn’t find anything that wasn’t the truth about it. But it just doesn’t necessarily apply to me. The important thing is we just mustn’t judge ourselves in relation to others.
Absolutely! And as long as they feel that and they come from a place of their truth, this is perfect.
Then really it’s nothing but truth because they share the truth of themselves.
But that also takes the ability on your part to put that into perspective.
Yes, I’m learning that more and more.
If you didn’t put that into perspective, what would that do to you?
Then I’d judge myself in relation to them.
There you are! And what would happen after that?
Well, when I judge myself, then I don’t feel very good about myself.
Right! And what happens after that?
Then I try to force myself into something that I am not.
So, is there more harm than good that is being done in the kind of situation where one is subjected to this before having the ability of being able to put this in perspective?
That’s hard to know. You’ve told me at other times that sometimes we have to shake ourselves out of our own past. So that also happens when we go to a person like that. Even though we may judge ourselves, sometimes they challenge us. So I don’t really know. It’s like we all kind of grow in the ability to put things in perspective. And we do the best we can in that.
Yes! And now you know. This is the beautiful part of all these thingsnow you know! You can see all these things and you can put them in perspective. You can see the bigger picture. This picture has a lot of different things in it. And you can see this picture and appreciate the whole picture.
Putting the whole thing in perspective
is the most beautiful thing that we can do for ourselves
to put the whole thing into perspective
and to be open minded about this!
This is why I keep saying it’s not necessarily what is right and what is wrong about any of these things. If people are coming from their hearts and they feel good about this, this is beautiful.
Sometimes you would criticize people who would say these things. But I think if they really feel that way and they are loving in it, they should say those things because that is their truth.
I have a purpose in doing those things. I criticize them in order for you to revolt against the criticism as you are doing nowin order for you to see and also to say that anything is possible.
People are entitled to do anything they want
as long as they don’t give the impression that theirs is the only way.
It could be a way for them if one wants it to be so, but it is not the only way. That is a very important distinction!
But we have to be in a place where we can see the big picture in order to accept the small parts in this picture. Even though the small parts may be important parts, they are not the whole picture.
There is a book by different people in which they describe what they call their enlightenment. The Dali Lama wrote the introduction and he said a very beautiful thing. He said that: All of these people realize some different aspects of the mystery.
For some reason I always thought there was one way of realizing. This has slowly changed. But I used to think that there was only one way. The mystery is so great there have to be many different ways of realizing the truth.
Exactly! There are many, many ways of seeing parts of this mystery. The more open we become to the idea that there could be other parts, the more we see other parts. But if we say that the only thing in this mystery is this certain part, as beautiful as that part is, then all the other parts are not seen.
Yes, but purity is very beautiful. When you meet a jnani who is really a pure jnani it is really very beautiful. It’s a wonderful experience. One also has to give credit to that so people are open to that because if you discourage that too much, then people are not open to that kind of thing. There’s a unity in those people that is very beautiful. But you may or may not be made like them. So one might not have the same unity. But it is very beautiful.
Purity is very beautiful.
But I have found it to be a disservice to people.
I have found it to be of disservice because I have found that on balance there are many, many more that are pretenders to this beauty. When we do find someone that within his whole essence he is very pure, of course, we’d be fools not to be thankful that we have seen someone who truly feels and acts in a way like that.
But there are many people in this spiritual game
that take advantage of other beings.
But today you said something much more important than I’ve heard you say all these times. Today what you said is that you have put all these different things in perspective as to what has been happening here all these years.
You said to me that there are some beings that are very, very beautiful on their own and they should be respected because they come from within their own heart and this is a very magnificent beauty that they have. So once you spot those beings and within your own heart you agree that this is where they come from, there is nothing more beautiful than to give your respects to them and to love them.
But at the same time, you now have a bigger picture within yourself so that when you spot a fake or when you spot all kinds of ideas that intend to make you a prisoner or to define you to be like somebody else, you are revolting.
So on one hand we have the beauty
and the respect for these things.
And on the other hand
we have the strength of our own convictions
so that we have the ability and the strength
to be what we want to be
without somebody directing us.
If anything ever happens in satsang, this is what eventually must happenthat people are in a situation where they can tell the difference and appreciate the difference and see what is actually going on.
This is what it means to be free.
And the picture that you described was a very, very wide picture. What I felt from that description was that at that particular time that you described it to me it was a very wide and beautiful picture. I’ve never heard that kind of a description coming from you before. It was very beautiful.
So I don’t want to let go of that. I don’t want to dismiss it that quickly. I want to take that description you gave me and I want to make that a very big important thing. I don’t want it to be just a conversation. That is why we are spending all this time on it. This is not because I’m picking on you. This is because what you said was a very wise, very encompassing, very, very big thing. So that being the case, I’m not letting it go.
I’m not letting it go like it was some kind of a side comment that was not very important. To be able to say what you said requires a lot of things to have taken place in your life. A composite of many, many things have taken place for you to be able to appreciate the beauty of somebody who truly believes whatever they believe, and to give them credit, to appreciate them, and to love them is very, very beautiful. And at the same time you see that there are other things in addition to that. That double combination is basically where we want to be.
So you have to be kind to yourself, to give credit to yourself for your acknowledging this stuff in a very real way. If it is possible to make comparisons, this is more beautiful than being a jnani only. This is appreciating both the jnani and the bigger picture at the same time.
It’s just that beauty is beauty.
Beauty is beauty. But in your particular case this is the first time that you have been able to see that beauty is beauty in one area and to see the beauty of the bigger picture, too. They are all beautiful. None of it is ugly. But it is a very, very big picture. And I, for one, am very happy for you that you said that. I am very happy that you said what you said.
What I’m hoping is that maybe you are going to be happy for yourself.